John Henry Browne is not a household name, but the defense attorney's most infamous client is.
Browne represented Ted Bundy, one of America's most notorious serial murderers.
And in a new interview about his decade-long relationship with the killer, Browne says he knew Bundy was "evil" the moment he saw him.
"The very definition of heartless evil."
Bundy was raised by a single mother in a home with her extended family, and reports of his early life show hints of what he would grow up to be.
One of Bundy's aunts remembered waking up to see the young boy pointing a knife at her.
Bundy also later revealed he would torture animals and stalk women as twisted pastimes.
As a young man, he obsessively read detective stories, and began creating his own violent fantasies.
Bundy's murders began sometime around 1974 - police can't say exactly when he started - as he abducted and murdered young women, using his charm and good looks to lure them into danger.
While the serial killer is officially connected to more than 30 murders in at least five different states, some police departments theorize there are dozens of unsolved Bundy slayings.
Bundy was finally executed for three Florida murders in 1989.
One of his last defense attorneys, Polly Nelson, summed the killer up as "the very definition of heartless evil."
"He had this energy about him that was clearly deceptive, very sociopathic."
Browne, now 71, spoke about his infamous client for the documentary series In Defense Of.
He says that in his 40 years as a defense attorney, Bundy was his only client who was "absolutely born evil."
And Browne would know. He worked closely with the killer while he was in a Colorado prison, and says Bundy continued sending him Christmas cards and letters until his execution.
"I didn't want to believe people were born evil, but I came to the conclusion that Ted was," Browne remembered.
"He had this energy about him that was clearly deceptive, very sociopathic."
While Browne says his client dressed "preppy," and chatted about the kind of cars he liked, Bundy would also "brag" about his murders.
"He was manipulative, he was dishonest. But at the same time, he was... basically, a really good version of a used car salesman."
But the lawyer says he never fell for Bundy's charm.
"Ted was trying constantly to be charismatic and charming and projecting an image of himself that was mainstream upper class prep school," he said.
"He was trying to sell that. But it was very apparent to me that... he was putting on a show to be those things."
"The comment, the one I still get chills about..."
Browne remembers that Bundy only let his "mask" slip once during their time together.
He remembers the murderer falling to the ground in his cell with tears in his eyes.
"John, I want to be a good person, but I'm just not," Browne remembers Bundy saying.
But Browne adds that Bundy "snapped out of that after three hours and went back to the facade of Ted."
The lawyer also says that one eerie moment with Bundy still haunts him decades later.
"The comment, the one I still get chills about, is when he told me, "˜The reason you've been my lawyer for so long is because we're so much alike.'"
Browne explains he was "really bothered" to think he was anything like Bundy.
"What bothered me is he would think that we were a lot alike... that we were friends. Because I've never considered myself a friend of his."
Bundy's "death wish."
Because of his special insight into the killer's twisted mind, Browne has developed an interesting theory about Bundy's final murders.
The convicted killer famously escaped from prison twice, before being captured and sentenced to death for a trio of Florida murders.
Browne insists that was just part of Bundy's plan, explaining that Bundy asked him which states would give him the death penalty before his escapes.
"He gets caught [in Florida] by a 300-pound older police officer when Ted was in the best physical shape of his life," Browne said.
"He also turned down the plea bargain I got for him. Nobody would ever believe you could get a plea bargain for Ted Bundy, but I did with one other lawyer," he added.
"He turns around and says, "˜I'm not going to do it.'"
With a new film about Bundy in the works - starring former Disney star Zac Effron, surprisingly - there's new interest in the killer's life almost three decades after his execution.
But if Browne could do it all over again, he says he would choose not to be a part of the murderer's disturbing life story.
" I wouldn't want it to be me," Browne said. "I've paid my dues."
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